Cross-DAO Collaboration Framework - Phase 1 - APE governance participation

🚀 SIP: Active 💬 In Discussion
1

Category Targeted

SAND Initiatives

TL;DR

Web3, with its open and interoperable nature, makes it easy to connect ecosystems built on blockchain. This enables metaverse-like experiences and creates network effects that benefit every stakeholder. In this environment, collaboration becomes much more valuable than competition. However, we are still held back by Web2 habits of competition, leaving much of this potential untapped.

To unlock it, we need to ignite cooperation and foster systematic cross-ecosystem collaborations. By participating in ApeCoin governance through the strategic acquisition of APE, the Sandbox DAO can take a leading role in this movement. This is what this proposal is about.

What:

This proposal introduces a scalable Cross-DAO Collaboration Framework initiated by The Sandbox DAO to foster partnerships and shared governance, starting with ApeCoin DAO as a pilot. The first step is to acquire 100,000 ApeCoins using up to 312,500 SAND to begin participating in ApeCoin DAO governance and fostering cross-community collaboration, driving mass adoption of a decentralised metaverse vision.

Why:

  1. Expand Sandbox Influence: Position The Sandbox DAO as a thought leader in innovation and amplify our voice and presence across the Web3 ecosystem.
  2. Enhance Collaboration: Foster cross-DAO initiatives, to deliver a more interconnected user experience that aligns with The Sandbox’s vision of building a global, open Metaverse.
  3. Grow Community and User Base: Attract users from targeted communities (starting with the ApeCoin community) to explore The Sandbox product and engage with its ecosystem.

How:

  1. Ape Token Acquisition: Acquire 100,000 APE tokens using the treasury
  2. Governance Participation: Establish a Snapshot subdomain for The Sandbox community to actively engage in ApeCoin DAO governance. Created a dedicated forum category (https://forum.sandboxdao.com/) to allow community members to express opinions and discuss AIPs effectively.
  3. Streamlined Cross-DAO Proposal Process: Following the outlined process in this proposal, community members are encouraged to propose co-branded initiatives with ApeCoin DAO. Shortly after this proposal is approved, we will submit the first cross-DAO proposal using this framework, aiming to create a co-funded incentive program to foster and reward co-branded initiatives.

When:

The acquisition of ApeCoin will be completed within one month of SIP approval, subject to market conditions. The governance setup and community engagement launch will be finalised within this timeframe.

Within one month of acquiring ApeCoins and initiating governance participation, the first cross-DAO proposal (focused on establishing a co-funded incentive program) will be submitted to The Sandbox DAO for approval. In the meantime, community members are encouraged to submit their own cross-DAO proposals as soon as the ApeCoins are acquired, using the process outlined in this proposal.

Who:

The authors Katherine Webb and Cedric Lion, members of Animoca Brands’ Tokenomics Team, will engage with the TSB DAO admin team regarding the management and exclusion of the SIP. The authors and TSB DAO admin team will ensure active community involvement and maintain clear accountability through quarterly progress reports.

Problem Description

The Power of Web3 and the Need for Cross-DAO Collaboration

One of the greatest strengths of Web3 lies in its ability to facilitate interconnected experiences across ecosystems. This can generate obvious benefits such as:

  • Co-Funded and Co-Branded Initiatives: Greater financial resources, improved visibility, and higher chances of success through shared branding and pooled resources.
  • Fostering Interoperability: Joint projects can build innovative, metaverse-like, cross-ecosystem experiences highlighting Web3’s unique value over Web2, driving mass adoption of decentralised technologies.
  • Expanding Audiences: Partnering DAOs gain access to each other’s communities and audiences, creating a win-win acquisition strategy that grows both ecosystems.
  • Strengthening Decentralized Governance: Interconnected governance encourages DAOs to consider and debate the broader impacts of their decisions, reducing unilateralism and fostering collaboration. This transforms the ecosystem from a “Player vs. Player” (PVP) model (where projects grow independently while treating others as competitors) to a “Player vs. Environment” (PVE) model, where the ecosystem collectively works to grow for the benefit of all stakeholders.

However, most DAOs still operate in silos, focusing exclusively on their individual goals and limiting the potential for cross-DAO initiatives. This fragmented approach overlooks the immense value that interconnected ecosystems can create.

Cross-DAO collaboration is particularly crucial for The Sandbox, which positions itself as a metaverse. To fully realise its vision, The Sandbox must actively foster joint experiences and connect its ecosystem to other ones.

The Challenges of Decentralized Governance

The nature of decentralised governance presents significant obstacles. Passing proposals within a single DAO is already a complex process. Aligning priorities, managing shared goals, and convincing two separate communities to approve interconnected proposals greatly amplifies this complexity. Additionally, the practical implementation of proposals, which is already challenging within a single DAO, becomes even more challenging with joint initiatives.

Introducing a Scalable DAO Collaboration Framework

The Sandbox DAO needs a replicable and scalable DAO Collaboration Framework to overcome these challenges. This framework should:

  • Facilitate Efficient and Impactful Partnerships: Simplify the process of proposing and developing co-funded initiatives and cross-ecosystem experiences, ensuring smoother collaboration.
  • Incentivize High-Quality Proposals: Align incentives to encourage initiatives that create maximum value for The Sandbox ecosystem and the broader Web3 space. This should incentivize more proposals, but also higher quality and impactful ones.

This proposal introduces the foundation for such a framework.

Solution Proposed

Cross-DAO Proposal Framework

The proposed framework establishes a systematic process for The Sandbox community to identify, discuss, and implement co-branded initiatives with other DAOs. Key steps include:

  1. Identifying Partner DAOs: The Sandbox community discusses and identifies DAOs with which they want to build partnerships. The Sandbox DAO acquires a reasonable quantity of the selected DAO’s tokens to participate in its governance.

  2. Governance Integration: The Sandbox creates a Snapshot subdomain dedicated to the chosen DAO. This subdomain replicates the DAO’s proposals, enabling The Sandbox community to discuss and vote on them. A dedicated forum will facilitate debates and discussions around the proposals. Based on the voting outcomes, an appointed delegate leverages The Sandbox’s voting power to vote on the other DAO’s proposals accordingly.

  3. Cross-DAO Proposal Process:

  • Step 1: A community member creates a cross-DAO proposal and first submits it to The Sandbox Snapshot for discussion and voting to ensure it aligns with the community’s best interests.
  • Step 2: If The SandboxDAO community approves, the proposal is duplicated and submitted to the partner DAO. The SandboxDAO casts its voting power in favour of the proposal based on the community’s decision.
  • Step 3: The proposal is debated and voted on in the partner DAO’s forums and governance platforms. The prior approval by The Sandbox DAO and the associated debate support the proposal, increasing the likelihood of approval.
  • Step 4: Once both DAOs approve, the cross-DAO proposal is implemented according to the conditions outlined in the proposal.

Pilot with ApeCoin DAO

To test and refine this framework, we propose initiating the process with ApeCoin DAO as a proof of concept. The following steps will be undertaken:

  1. ApeCoin Acquisition: Acquire 100,000 ApeCoins using SAND, ensuring sufficient governance participation and signalling a commitment to collaboration.
  2. Voting Power Delegation: The SandboxDAO will act as the delegator for the Sandbox community within ApeCoin DAO and will cast votes based on decisions made by The Sandbox community.
  3. Governance Channel Setup: Establish a Snapshot subdomain to replicate ApeCoin DAO proposals; create a dedicated forum sub-category to enable debates and community discussions.
  4. Governance Participation: Actively participate in ApeCoin DAO governance, with The Sandbox community debating and voting on proposals to ensure their voice is heard and their interests are represented.
  5. Cross-DAO Proposals: Following the earlier process, any community member can create a cross-DAO proposal by submitting it to The Sandbox for discussion and approval.

Therefore, this proposal establishes a theoretical framework for cross-DAO initiatives and begins its implementation with ApeCoin DAO as a proof of concept. Doing so paves the way for community members to propose numerous joint initiatives with ApeCoin DAO while also setting the stage for acquiring tokens from other DAOs to foster partnerships with targeted ecosystems.

Benefits to The Sandbox Ecosystem

Benefits of the Overall Framework

Stimulating Cross-DAO proposals…

This framework encourages The Sandbox community to actively debate and identify the DAOs they wish to partner with and the co-branded initiatives they want to implement. By fostering these discussions, we will stimulate creativity, generate fresh ideas, and lead to actionable proposals that align with the community’s vision.

… and facilitating the proposals’ acceptance…

The Sandbox’s active involvement, demonstrated by acquiring tokens from targeted DAOs and participating in their governance, adds credibility and weight to its proposals. This “skin in the game” approach signals a genuine commitment to collaboration, significantly increasing the likelihood of proposal acceptance.

… to unlock the advantages of Cross-DAO collaboration.

By stimulating and facilitating cross-DAO partnerships and joint initiatives, this framework unlocks numerous benefits, including:

  • Co-Funded and Co-Branded Initiatives: Greater financial resources, improved visibility, and increased chances of success through shared branding and pooled assets.
  • Enhanced User Experience: Joint projects enable innovative, metaverse-like, cross-ecosystem experiences highlighting Web3’s unique value over Web2, driving mass adoption.
  • Expanding Audiences: Access to each partner DAO’s community and audience, creating a win-win acquisition strategy that grows both ecosystems.

Benefits of Pilot Collaboration with ApeCoin DAO:

As a pilot for the proposed framework, we selected ApeCoin DAO due to the numerous benefits it offers:

Engaging a Strong, Loyal Community

ApeCoin DAO boasts a robust and loyal community tied to the iconic Bored Ape Yacht Club (BAYC) and the recent successful launch of ApeChain. This partnership allows The Sandbox to connect with ApeCoin’s active user base and gain increased visibility by associating with one of the most recognisable brands in Web3.

Powerful Co-Branded Marketing Opportunities

The Sandbox DAO and ApeCoin DAO possess significant financial resources and strong branding. Co-branded initiatives between the two can generate substantial marketing impact, leveraging the combined strengths of both ecosystems. Aligning with ApeCoin DAO enhances The Sandbox’s credibility and opens the door to impactful co-marketing campaigns and joint projects.

Interoperability and Cross-Ecosystem Experiences

This collaboration paves the way for innovative cross-ecosystem experiences that leverage the strengths of both platforms:

  • Sandbox Experiences with Apecoin Assets: Create immersive experiences in The Sandbox using Ape ecosystem assets and IP to attract and engage the ApeCoin community.
  • ApeChain Experiences with Sandbox Assets: Integrate Sandbox assets into ApeChain to expand interoperability and utility.

These initiatives foster deeper user engagement by enabling in-game items and assets to gain functionality across platforms, enhancing the overall user experience and reinforcing the value of Web3 interoperability.

Risk analysis

Risk Likelihood Severity Impact Mitigation
Selling $SAND from Treasury Low Low Reducing $SAND reserves for purchasing APE may be questioned. Maintain transparency, limit the transaction size, and ensure the investment aligns with strategic goals to foster growth.
Limited Governance Impact Medium Low The acquired ApeCoins may not provide significant voting power or influence within ApeCoin DAO. Focus on meaningful participation and aligning proposals with mutual goals rather than dominance in governance.
Unclear ROI Medium Medium Joint initiatives may have uncertain outcomes, making it challenging to quantify returns on investment. Define clear KPIs upfront, review progress quarterly, and adjust strategies based on measurable outcomes and community feedback.
Community Pushback Medium Medium Concerns over resource allocation and token purchases may arise within The Sandbox community. Maintain transparency, involve the community in governance votes, and communicate the long-term benefits of the initiative.
Reputational risk among Apecoin DAO Low Medium The unilateral token purchase may be perceived as an attempt to dominate ApeCoin DAO governance. Clearly position the purchase as a collaborative step, emphasising mutual benefits and respecting ApeCoin DAO’s independence.
Treasury depreciation Medium High If the relative value of APE decreases compared to SAND, the treasury may face devaluation. Leverage favourable SAND-to-APE conversion rates, highlight diversification benefits, and monitor market conditions to adjust plans.

Budget requested

Total Maximum Requested: Up to a maximum of 312,800 SAND (250,200 SAND estimated cost + 25% buffer for any additional expenses)

This budget ensures sufficient resources to execute the proposal effectively while maintaining flexibility and accountability.

Cost Breakdown:

  • SAND Tokens for ApeCoin Acquisition:
    • Current Estimate: 250,000 SAND.
    • Maximum Cap: 312,500 SAND (to account for market volatility and ensure purchase flexibility)
  • 2 x ENS Domain purchase:
    • Cost Estimate: 2 x0.02 ETH (in USD equivalent).
    • SAND Allocation: ~120 SAND per ENS domain
    • Maximum cap: 300 SAND (to account for market volatility and ensure purchase flexibility)

Implementation Plan

Milestones How do we measure success? Expected completion date Unlock Payment
#0 SIP Acceptance SIP is approved through a Snapshot vote with a clear majority. Up to 312,500 SAND for ApeCoin acquisition
#1 ApeCoin Acquisition Execution Plan: Convert up to 312,500 SAND to APE on CEX using a TWAP strategy over 3–5 days to minimise slippage based on DEX and CEX simulated swaps. - Successful acquisition of 100,000 ApeCoins. - Transparent reporting of all transactions to the community. Within one month of SIP approval Up to 300 SAND to buy 2 ENS domains
#2 Governance Infrastructure Setup - Create a Snapshot TSB DAO subdomain to replicate ApeCoin DAO proposals. - Buy ENS subdomain name - Snapshot subdomain is operational 2 weeks post-acquisition No additional funds are required.
#3 Active Governance Participation - Replicate AIP into TSB DAO Subdomain - Create a dedicated discussion in Discourse for each replicated AIP. - Discussion period of 11 days, with 1-2 days for DAO to vote. - Proposal to lower for ApeCoin-related initiatives due to trial nature: Use ~80% of the current quorum (25 million) to ensure 100% active participation in APE DAO governance. - Participation in 100% of ApeCoin DAO proposals. - Active community involvement in discussions. Ongoing post-infrastructure setup No additional funds are required.

KPI’s for Success

To evaluate the success of this initiative, the following Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) will be tracked:

Metric Target Timeline
Voting Participation 80% of The SandboxDAO main quorum Within 90 days
Snapshot Subdomain Engagement 100 new members Within 90 days
Cross-DAO Proposals One joint initiative with ApeCoin DAO Within 12 months
Partnership Expansion One additional DAO collaboration is to be initiated Within 12 months
Proposal Creativity Two unique ideas developed into actionable proposals, using the cross-DAO proposal framework. Annually
APE Resource Utilisation 100% of the allocated APE tokens are actively utilised in governance votes or other approved initiatives Ongoing

If KPIs are not met, then the authors and the SandboxDAO team will review the SIP and its success after 1 year to see if any amendments and refinements should be made.

Team/Author Background

Katherine Webb and Cedric Lion submitted the proposal, representing extensive expertise in tokenomics, decentralised governance, and blockchain ecosystems.

Katherine Webb is a Senior Tokenomics Analyst at Animoca Brands. Katherine brings over five years of experience in the crypto sector, with the past three years dedicated to tokenomics at Animoca, where she has contributed to the design, analysis, and optimisation of token ecosystems. She also serves as a council member for the Open Campus sub-DAO.

Cedric Lion holds a degree in Economics with a special interest in Game Theory and Microeconomics. Over the past 1.5 years, he has focused on Tokenomics and the economic design of Web3 projects, including the last six months at Animoca Brands.

Both authors bring complementary skills and a shared vision for advancing decentralised collaboration through The Sandbox DAO, ensuring this proposal is built on a foundation of expertise and practical experience.

This proposal is being submitted by the authors in their personal capacity and not behalf of Animoca Brands

Voting Options

State the options members can vote for:

  • Yes, No, Abstain
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Shouldn’t we focus on creating a stable active DAO of our own before selling tokens to acquire voting power in other DAOs

Isn’t The Sandbox already a holder of BAYC and tokens, why isn’t this being used as a collaboration tool before dumping tokens.

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I am with @AndyRichy on this. While I see the purpose of a cross DAO collab, it should be in other forms, nothing to do with purchasing/swapping tokens.

Speaking as a MAYC, $APE, Otherside LAND, $SAND, and TSB LAND holder myself, I DO NOT want both families co-mingling in each other’s business.

As a TSB DAO member, I don’t want people who don’t spend time in TSB, who don’t understand our culture, the people and their needs, meddling in our decision making in the DAO. Individuals can do so in their own capacity, but not as an organisation.

As an $Ape/MAYC holder, I don’t want people who aren’t familiar with the culture of the swamp, being an ape, etc, meddling in my business in the DAO as well.

What I do want, is collaboration on projects and events, “raiding” of each other’s experiences, like having TSB community members joining Project Dragon, and the Yuga Labs community joining us in Alpha Season.

So, i’m sorry, but no.

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I agree with @AndyRichy and @DAO!
Both pretty much summed how I feel bout this.
My vote will have to be a No on this one.

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Disclosure: I’m a current co-author of AIP-553: ApeCoin DAO Reporting RESET…it’s kind of similar to the current Community Council SIP.

I’m supportive of a cross-DAO opportunity, and…

My experience in the ApeCoin DAO leads me to say that if we adopt this SIP, we need clear voting rules placed within it. I hear many on ApeCoin DAO spaces express their frustration with a lack of feedback/structure from voting wallets. There is a sentiment that too many “outside” interests are irresponsible with their voting power.

I don’t want TSB DAO to be seen that way and politics within ApeCoin DAO is complicated. I recommend this SIP idea incorporate a structured approach for SIP voting–something like

click for structured approach
  1. Create an ApeCoin DAO subforum within 3 days this proposal being passed
  2. When an AIP is posted to ApeCoin DAO Snapshot, a TLDR with link to the full AIP is posted to ApeCoin subforum with a poll reflecting the voting options of the AIP
  3. Discussion ensues for 7 days.
  4. At end of 7 days, the winning vote gets entered into the AIP as Sandbox DAO’s official vote before the 9th day
  5. Should a tie occur, then whatever majority YES or NO is showing on the AIP at that time, Sandbox DAO will vote that way before the 9th day.
  6. The voter of the Sandbox DAO shall post a screenshot of the vote at the 7th day, and if a tie then also include a screenshot of the AIP’s vote before the 9th day

Can we hear a little about how they got involved? I assume there’s a link between our fellow delegate @mo_ezz14 , who is Head of Tokenomics at Animoca Brands, and Katherine & Cedric, who might be part of his team?

I recall at one point @seb_sandbox having 1M VP in the ApeCoin DAO. Is there any connection between his VP and this SIP in any way?

One big benefit

If we stake the $APE on ApeStake.io, the DAO can earn anywhere from 6 to 15% APY, depending on the volume of ApeCoin transactions.

Pretty nice way to get a jump start on our revenue options!

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"Speaking as a MAYC, $APE, Otherside LAND, $SAND, and TSB LAND holder myself, I DO NOT want both families co-mingling in each other’s business.
As a TSB DAO member, I don’t want people who don’t spend time in TSB, who don’t understand our culture, the people and their needs, meddling in our decision making in the DAO. Individuals can do so in their own capacity, but not as an organisation.
As an $Ape/MAYC holder, I don’t want people who aren’t familiar with the culture of the swamp, being an ape, etc, meddling in my business in the DAO as well.“

I understand your concerns about preserving the unique culture and identity of each DAO. However, fostering collaboration doesn’t mean merging identities or compromising values.

Actually, encouraging people from one community to participate in another is exactly our goal here : sparking people’s interests in ecosystems they might not have explored before. That’s how we stimulate cross-community growth.

The (marginal) risk of random or uninformed voting will be far outweighed by the benefit of attracting new individuals to the other DAO, some of whom will become active, engaged members over time.

For the metaverse to thrive and attract new users, collaboration is key. It doesn’t dilute culture, it enriches it by introducing fresh ideas and encouraging healthy debates, all while preserving what makes each community special.

“What I do want, is collaboration on projects and events, “raiding” of each other’s experiences, like having TSB community members joining Project Dragon, and the Yuga Labs community joining us in Alpha Season.”

Yes, that’s exactly the kind of dynamic we aim to achieve here, and, most importantly, we want to achieve it at scale.

However, that’s not happening today. We need to create an environment, a starting point, that makes these initiatives happen naturally. That’s what our proposal is about: a framework to kickstart the dynamic you’re describing.

If anyone has alternative ideas to reach this goal, to start this engine, that’s great, let’s discuss them. In the meantime, we believe our approach has a strong chance of fostering the collaboration we all want.

Also, let’s not forget this proposal is reversible : the APE tokens can be swapped back to SAND in the future if needed. This is more of an investment than a net cost. It’s a chance to launch a beneficial dynamic, and if it doesn’t work as expected, we can reverse it.

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Thank you, @AndyRichy, for your comment.

As was discussed during SIP-9: Mandate for DAO NFT Collection Management, part of the NFT collection held by the Sandbox will be transferred to the TSD DAO for them to manage.

However, the Sandbox DAO currently does not hold any APE tokens, which are required for participation in APE DAO.

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Thank you, @Lanzer, for sharing your experiences and feedback with us. We completely agree that clear voting rules are essential for ensuring a transparent and efficient process.

The current proposal incorporates some elements similar to the ones you highlighted, but we recognize that we could have articulated this more clearly. Here’s an outline of the process:

  1. Snapshot subdomain: Set up within two weeks of the SIP passing.
  2. AIP posting: When an AIP is posted to the [ApeCoin DAO Snapshot], it will also be posted to the TSB ApeCoin subforum with a poll reflecting the voting options of the AIP.
  3. Discussion and voting period: 11 days.
  4. End of 11 days: The winning vote is decided based on TSB DAO voting. In the event of a tie: While unlikely, we propose this should result in an abstain vote from TSB DAO. We proposed to use ~80% of the current TSB DAO quorum, which would be 25M VP.
  5. Delegated voting: TSB DAO delegated voters will cast the vote on behalf of TSB DAO in the APE DAO proposal by the end of day 13, with proof of the vote posted to the TSB DAO.

Any thoughts or suggestions to improve this process?

"Can we hear a little about how they got involved? I assume there’s a link between our fellow delegate [@mo_ezz14], who is Head of Tokenomics at Animoca Brands, and Katherine & Cedric, who might be part of his team?”

We are indeed part of the Tokenomics team led by @mo_ezz14 at Animoca Brands. To maintain impartiality, @mo_ezz14 will be abstaining from this vote.

As for why we are involved, our work at AB has provided us with prior experience collaborating with The Sandbox team. Through these interactions and our observations of TSB DAO, we identified an opportunity for the cross-DAO framework to be pioneered by TSB DAO. Recognizing the potential impact, we decided to design and advocate for this proposal ourselves!

“I recall at one point @seb_sandbox having 1M VP in the ApeCoin DAO. Is there any connection between his VP and this SIP in any way?”

No connection of any kind.

“If we stake the $APE on [ApeStake.io], the DAO can earn anywhere from [6 to 15% APY], depending on the volume of ApeCoin transactions.”

We acknowledge the potential benefits of staking APE tokens for additional yield. However, as the current proposal is already quite complex, we believe adding further complexity at this stage is unnecessary. We appreciate your suggestion and welcome the opportunity to debate this idea in a future SIP.

However, we can amend the current proposal if other community members show interest in this idea in the ongoing discussion.

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We understand the concerns of certain delegates regarding the need for an active DAO with more members before joining another one.

It’s worthwhile to make sufficient efforts to achieve this. However, we wouldn’t block new alliances for these reasons alone.

Experience has shown us that it is more important to “act,” whether the outcome is positive or negative, than to remain inactive. In such a fast-paced and ever-changing industry, being proactive is crucial.

Without conducting any financial analysis—since we believe this proposal has a different focus—buying $APE seems like a strategic move. It would allow us to collaborate not only behind closed doors but also at a DAO-to-DAO level.

We think this is an experiment worth pursuing, as it has the potential to bring significant value to both communities, strengthening the ties between them.

That said, there are some questions we’d like to address before fully supporting this initiative:

  • While the KPIs look promising, will there be someone from our DAO taking ownership to fully maximize this opportunity?
    Will this person receive compensation for assuming this responsibility?

We worry that no one may end up taking ownership of this new task.

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Only way I’ll consider endorsing this is if the same proposal is put up to Apecoin DAO, i.e a token swap of similar value, with similar parameters of collaboration, i.e creation of a TSB DAO subforum on Apecoin DAO, voting in our SIPs etc.

Put both SIP/AIP up for discussion and vote concurrently as well. I’d love to hear what the Apecoin DAO’s community thinks about this.

It is a cross DAO collaboration, after all.

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Arthemort mentioned during my podcast episode with him that the transfer was supposed to have happened by now…do we have any indication it happened?

Well shoot you’re right, I skipped right over #3 on your implementation plan. Yes, I like your plan better, especially the Abstain part.

Who are the delegated voters?

Were you requested or assigned to this task, or did you, Cedric, and Katherine pursue this of your own accord?

What is your role, @zeromiedocrypto ?

@DAO Makes a really good point about us meddling in the affairs of ApeCoin DAO. They’re about to go through a huge governance shift. Can you, at the individual level…describe how the connection is going to work between an individual MAYC/BAYC and SandFam? I’m struggling to imagine how that interaction will take place.

Their 10M voting clause is going to change the role of voting in the same way that our 12 SandFam delegates receiving 2M VP changed ours. I don’t anticipate AIP authors coming to TSB DAO for its vote when it “only” has 100K $APE.

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Actually we did consider this option when designing the proposal but concluded that running both simultaneously would be significantly more complicated.

If we really want this token swap to be mutual (which btw is not strictly necessary for this plan to work), it’s more practical to pass it here first and then present it to the Apecoin DAO. This approach is simpler from an operational standpoint and increases the proposal’s chances at Apecoin, as TSB’s acceptance will demonstrate good faith and a willingness to collaborate. Approval here will add weight and credibility to the proposal when it’s brought to Apecoin.

Besides, our primary focus is on the interests of TSB, and we believe it’s highly beneficial for TSB’s reputation and influence to take the lead in this movement.

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Mmm I don’t know about that. If I(an organisation) am going to participate in another organisation’s business affairs, I, in good conscience, will want to know if I’m welcomed. Doing otherwise might be counter productive and, if taken the wrong way, can seem intrusive.

If done the right way, a cross DAO collaboration will look something like this.

  1. We introduce ourselves to them (Hey Apecoin DAO, I’m TSB DAO, nice to meet you).

  2. We show interest in participating in their events (Hey Apecoin DAO, we see you guys are holding Project Dragon, that’s lit, can we join?)

  3. We invite them over to our parties (Hey man, we have Alpha Season, you can earn a shit ton of SAND and your members can vote in our DAO with the SAND earned)

  4. We bring up business (Hey you know what, you guys cool, how about we do a token swap and help boost each other by collaborating on business)

Skipping all that, we’ll be going:

1000013234
1000013234400Ă—400 102 KB

Hope you get the picture.

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I do not know the status of the transfer of the NFT’s ownership to the DAO.

“Who are the delegated voters?”

A delegated voter would be a member of the TSB DAO team who would be responsible for submitting the vote on behalf of the TSB DAO.

“Were you requested or assigned to this task, or did you, Cedric, and Katherine pursue this of your own accord?”

During our day-to-day conversations within our team, we have brainstormed the idea of cross-DAO frameworks and the idea that DAOs can work together to grow their ecosystems. We have seen the success of the Mocaverse APE DAO delegation and the ongoing discussion and voting activity within the TSB DAO. We (Katherine and Cedric) took it upon ourselves to develop and propose a potential solution; we felt like TSB DAO was the best initial candidate to start this framework, given our previous interaction with the Sandbox team and the project status within the space.

“What is your role, @zeromiedocrypto ?”

Hello ZeroMeidoCrypto = Katherine Webb

“* Can you, at the individual level…describe how the connection is going to work between an individual MAYC/BAYC and SandFam? I’m struggling to imagine how that interaction will take place.*”

The main interaction point will initially be the TSB APE sub-forum, where discussion and debates will occur within the Sandbox community about each AIP and its potential relation with Sandbox interests.
We expect interesting debates to occur on this forum, and we should see Apecoin community members come to read it and contribute. We can imagine a summary of the comments around the debate on the subforum to be written up and posted on the APE forum, with a direct link to our subforum (this should help encourage ape-coin community members to come and participate on the Sandbox forum).

Also, we hope that numerous joint initiatives will be implemented thanks to this framework, and we expect many other interaction points to appear specific to each initiative.

“Their 10M voting clause is going to change the role of voting in the same way that our 12 SandFam delegates receiving 2M VP changed ours. I don’t anticipate AIP authors coming to TSB DAO for its vote when it “only” has 100K $APE.”

The goal is to spark debate and engagement around the AIP while aligning with TSB’s vision and interests. We’re not aiming for substantial voting power and prefer to avoid it to ensure the ApeCoin DAO doesn’t see this as intrusive.

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Thank you @Gonzacolo, for your thoughtful comments

"While the KPIs look promising, will there be someone from our DAO taking ownership to fully maximize this opportunity?

  • Will this person receive compensation for assuming this responsibility? We worry that no one may end up taking ownership of this new task.

This is an excellent point. Our initial approach was to make this a community-led effort, at least as proof of concept, before establishing a formal framework or team to expand further and strengthen the relationship. However, we are open to community feedback on whether the proposal should include a dedicated formal role and suggestions on who might be best suited for such a position.

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Your concerns about ensuring a respectful and non-intrusive approach to cross-DAO collaboration are valid, and we did our best ton consider it while designing our proposal.

We appreciate the process you suggest, with its structured steps before initiating a token swap. It’s a great idea and aligns well with our broader vision. However, we believe our approach offers a simpler and straightforward way to achieve the same goals, while showcasing innovation by kickstarting this framework with governance participation.

We’re approaching this in good faith, offering mutual benefits: ApeCoin DAO gains buying pressure on their token and positive visibility, while TSB takes the lead in pioneering this collaborative model. Our phased approach starts with small, non-invasive steps, demonstrating trust before progressing to deeper collaboration.

This is a sincere first step to showcase our commitment. We believe ApeCoin DAO will view it positively, and we’re open to ideas for further refinements.

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@Gonzacolo , you speak as « we » . Can you just explain who are you representing? Thank tou

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I agree that it’s successful in that the cross-DAO participation is happening. Mocaverse’s participation in APE has been seen as intrusive, mostly because it has mostly voted no due to MocaCN’s voting philosophy. ApeCoin DAO members dislike Mocaverse.

I think it’s in TSB DAO’s best interest NOT to tread down that path.

Oh! Hi :slightly_smiling_face:

Hmmm…yeah, that makes sense. I’ll need to think about this. Thanks for submitting this SIP!

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It’s not bad for it to be a “community-led effort,” but it would be good to have a specific person or group responsible.

I feel like the KPIs are too ambitious for there to be no one in charge, and too unambitious if someone paid is.

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I’m not sure what value responding to this adds to the proposal, but sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

I usually speak as “we” because most of the time, we discuss technical or implementation topics related to governance internally, and I didn’t want to leave out part of the WakeUp Labs team.

However, in this case, it was a personal opinion.

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