šŸ¤šŸ½ SIP Establishing a SandFam-elected "Community Council"

A lot to read, but I respect all the views and opinions. I resonate a lot with several of the points and I agree that the requirements and effort for this position should be compensated. It’s not just a community member role, the way I see it, it feels like a marketing position as well.

On the SC topic:
I believe we need to know our SC members and what they do so that when it’s time for elections, we know who to vote for. Otherwise, with the current community sentiment, I think they will all end up being replaced. I think the community needs transparency on the SC’s contributions and success metrics.
Also, I don’t agree with the 2 year term. I think it should be one year. And if it must be 2 years, then there should be a review session at the end of the first year.

I want to emphasize that we need KPIs or success metrics that are periodically shared with the community for both the AB and SC members. This isn’t because of the current members we have. It’s most likely the next members will be completely different. So how do we safeguard the DAO and the community from bad actors down the road !?

From this image, it looks like the SC is the only position that is compensated. Just to be clear, those Ambassadors are TSB Ambassadors which are not DAO, correct?

What incentive do people have to apply for the AB? I think this whole compensation and success metrics structure needs to be restructured!

Much love to you all!

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I do like the amendment idea. I wonder if the SC would just veto it though lol, could be a good test.

And like DrMetaverso mentioned (and had been mentioned from the beginning, but, again, no discussions were allowed) metrics would be a very important thing to add to know who would be best to vote out. The current metrics have absolutely no test of per person.

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TSB Ambassadors are now TSB DAO Ambassadors with the new structure. That’s why so many of the TSB Ambassadors quit and left everything to you new recruits. The new Ambassador program turned you guys into contracted employees of the DAO.

But I honestly don’t believe they will all be replaced. A simple look at their own VP, the VP of their friends and the partners of TSB that have received such large amounts of LAND and SAND for free/discounted thanks to their partnerships, their allegiances with always heavily lean towards re-electing those that put them there. Especially when you consider that there is nothing set in stone preventing TSB itself from voting and given we have already seen multiple times that they will use their VP and marketing reach to ensure the SIPs they want to pass are passed, I expect if the vote doesn’t go their way that their VP will sway it again. Add in the name recognition factor, the language barrier we saw with the first SIPs (and the fact that that still hasn’t been addressed) and how those seeking re-election win a vast majority of the time in all elections; I really don’t see them all being removed, or even a majority.

Also, I apparently didn’t read this all the way through but I appreciate you re-sharing it as it just further illustrates what I said since the beginning. There was never a discussion nor was there anything more than a sham vote. The people were appointed and never even tried to convince us to vote for them because they knew ahead of time that the collective VP would guarantee their spots. Just feels weird seeing it shared directly from the DAO as before they tried to claim it was a true vote lol.

But yes, lots to read lol. When I see something attacking the community I love, whether the intentions were in the right place or not, I speak up. And I had a LOT to say on this.

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Wait what? I don’t recall them being renamed DAO Ambassadors. I did a reaction to TSB’s AMA with Amit discussing who and how the program would be executed

I expect if the vote doesn’t go their way that their VP will sway it again

I’m not sure that’s possible anymore. the 24M VP given to delegates came from TSB. Unless they re-upped their wallet amount, they now have 27 minus 24 = 3M VP

They may not be named DAO Ambassadors but see below, as these are the current ambassadors. A role inside The Sandbox DAO as illustrated by Kunta:

I will watch your reaction video tonight or tomorrow but before I even watch it I can tell you that while I can’t give any specifics because of the NDA I had to sign, there were definitely differing statements made between The Sandbox team and the DAO Admin team in here.

But the most basic reason why I said what I said is because when I applied to the new The Sandbox DAO Ambassador program I said I would not work for the DAO but I would continue to do everything I had done before as an Ambassador for The Sandbox and I did not receive a contract for a contracted employment position with The Sandbox DAO Ambassador program.

But I am very curious what lies were told to the community in this AMA since we already know they have absolutely no problem at all telling lies to the community, so I will definitely watch this.

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You are raising a very important issue here! yes, some of the AB & SC members do have some serious VP power & backing. In IRL, candidates can vote for themselves in federal elections for example, but not sure about the laws and regulations when it comes to the DAO!

Hello @Cyril , Would you possibly have a document or some information regarding the AB and SC election mechanism and regulations/rules? … Thanks a lot!

Their direct VP may not impact it the way it did previously, but have you ever looked at the wallets of most of the top voters? A vast majority are partners of The Sandbox who owe all their SAND and LAND to that partnership and have had little to no interaction with the community, yet always seem to vote exactly how the Special Council wants them to vote. Always found that interesting. Almost like the Special Council holds the power that I’ve previously mentioned.

And now onto your reaction video. Here’s my reaction to it, it will be long given how much was covered in your reaction video:

You don’t fault them for not giving the information ahead of time with anything even close to specifics, but how late into the discussion and voting process was it that the information was finally given? How many votes had taken place before it was even known exactly what we were voting on?

ā€œAmbassadors are not employees of TSB, they are contractors.ā€ Another word for Contractors is Contract Employees because The Sandbox DAO Ambassadors were turned into Contract Employees of The Sandbox DAO who would be hired and fired as needs arose and fell, per their own words. This alone completely changed what it meant to be an Ambassador. We were not employees in any way, contract, part time or full time, we were community members with an elevated title volunteering our time because of everything we had done and could do for The Sandbox and The Sandbox Community and received benefits for such.

ā€œTo ensure they are compensated fairly.ā€ The interesting thing about this is how drastically lower the potential compensation for ambassadors was after the DAO took control of the Ambassador program. I’ve never given the numbers myself and never will because I’ve always been told not to under punishment of my NDA. I can say it definitely was never anything significant. We were here because we loved the project and had the benefit of potentially receiving something for our time and stress. I surely didn’t deal with the death threats and doxing threats I received because of the money, it was always about the passion for the project. Which was why were invited to be ambassadors in the first place, our passion for The Sandbox. So who determined what is fair? Definitely wasn’t the community since these numbers weren’t even published until the end of the vote nor were they allowed to know the prior numbers. The easiest way for me to know this was the sheer number of people proudly telling me they voted for it before anything was published because we would be compensated something since in their minds there was no compensation at all for ambassadors. So telling people that ambassadors would receive ā€œfairā€ compensation when they knew the community thought we received nothing was a very interesting line given they knew the prior numbers.

ā€œThe DAO will not be the active managers of The Sandbox Ambassador program.ā€ I don’t know how you read this as The DAO won’t have ownership. This is a $1.5 Billion market cap project, not a mom and pop shop, the owners of operations of that size rarely, if ever, take an active management role in the day to day management of the lowest level employees, contracted or full time with benefits. The DAO provides the money, the money is the ownership. Ownership determines the management.

I can not say it enough, this new program is completely and totally different from what the previous Ambassador title meant. Even if it’s the same active managers. The role is completely and totally different now under the new ownership.

As The Kachingaverze points out, ā€œa contradiction.ā€ Yes. I heard lots of contradictions in this AMA that seemed to be more related to trying to tell the community what they felt the community wanted to hear to vote yes verse what the actual truth is.

And yes, you make the most obvious point as to why they say what they say in these AMAs. There is no back and forth. They say something as though it is the truth based on what they think the community wants to hear to vote the way they want us to vote. ā€œSomething that seems offā€ should have made you question more.

ā€œThere will absolutely never be pressure on our ambassadors to support a SIP that does not follow their beliefs.ā€ As they laid out in the AMA, the DAO never would pressure us for our support. The only pressure was to promote. Which is what the question was, promotion not support. And I directly asked the question myself and was told if we were asked to promote something then we would have to promote it but not support it, regardless of our personal belief that a lack of promotion could increase the chance of a SIP failing by not meeting quorum. Many of us opposed to SIPs collectively decided to not vote specifically for this reason. And now we would be forced to promote them. Because everything is about metrics, not the community.

The important thing to remember is what the metrics in the first SIPs outlined. It was all about visits to the DAO website and number of voters. Nothing about building up The Sandbox itself.

And they loved to drill down the ā€œnot an employeeā€ idea. So the DAO Ambassadors money comes from the DAO, they have job requirements from the DAO, they are managed by the team the DAO says should manage them, but somehow they aren’t employed by the DAO? Not sure I understand this at all. Feels more like trying to play semantics to pressure the community to vote how you want them to vote.

The hiring. The firing. The job requirements for performance. The forced promotion of the DAO. The new ambassador program is completely and totally different from the old program and what it meant to be an Ambassador.

ā€œ5-10 current ambassadors are active on a weekly basis.ā€ Hmmm. How many of those old ambassadors are still active as ambassadors now under the DAO ambassador program?

ā€œIf we don’t reach a quorum.ā€ The real concern of theirs.

So basically if we don’t pass the Ambassador program as he wants then it’s entirely on us to submit our own SIP for an ambassador program instead of working with us to create a new one or improving this one, especially given the community can’t even submit SIPs at that time? I find that interesting that you see that as a good thing. Seems more respectable to me to say he would work with the community and current ambassadors to improve the SIP.

But none of that mattered with this SIP because the VP came from The Sandbox to ensure it passed. No matter how much we united to not vote on specific SIPs, we never could have beat The Sandbox VP combined with their partners VPs. Another thing to look at is how heavily this SIP was promoted while most others were not promoted at all.

In the end though, this is not relevant to the Community Council. This is in the past and was the final straw that lead to many of the ambassadors to actually quit. But it does answer your question you posed.

And don’t think that this SIP is why I’m no longer active.

They absolutely should have created a brand new position and left the ambassador program alone in the sense of what it meant to be an ambassador, even if that meant stripping all of the funding and the DAO created a different position and title. I did what I did for a long time before the benefits and title simply because of the passion, the benefits and title never dictated my passion or activity.

Even if they do end up stripping my title, I will still come back to being active once the DAO becomes even remotely close to an actual DAO and the community has an actual voice and power. The way they handled the creation of this DAO and went against the community was the reason for my inactivity. If you look back, I stopped being active as soon as the DAO was announced and the first vote was forced. After that, the only activity you see from me was related to fighting for the community against the DAO. As is the case right now.

My passion lies with The Sandbox and The Sandbox Community. They are my SandFam. And I will fight for them. Unfortunately right now that means fighting the DAO since they are so insistent on not working with the community to give the community an actual voice and power.

And this idea of a Community Council may have come from the right place, but it absolutely is not what the community needs. We do not need to put in required free labor to provide reports to those who don’t have the passion to know what the community wants. We need and deserve a spot at the table.

just a point of clarity here…

The AB does NOT receive any compensation

And most of the SC has never invoiced the Admin Team (thus, never been paid).

A related sentiment (although a digression) is that as long as some people operate from the position that we’re all on different sides, there will be intense friction in getting things done.

As far as I can see, all of us, even those with different viewpoints ALL WANT THE SAME THING: a strong TSB ecosystem.

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discussions are invited at every turn

at least in the current form of the DAO (since I’ve been with Admin)

so, THANK YOU for your contributions here :handshake:t4:

Another point of clarity: the DAO Admin team has ZERO influence over the Ambassadors.

I don’t even have a direct line of communication with the ambassadors (except those who have initiated DMs with me directly), as I’ve been removed from the Ambassador channel on Discord since I am no longer an ambassador.

So, let’s ensure we’re all relaying accurate info in our arguments.

I was an ambassador for over 4 years.

And I agree with this statement above.

It should have been done differently. In fact, there was a lot that could have been done better.

Pointing fingers and holding grudges at this point, however, will not take us where we all collectively want to go.

We can reduce friction and, in turn, increase DAO improvements when we start working together.

I am grateful there is a DAO at all and that each of us in this forum has direct influence over the shape it will take.

No governing body starts off smoothly. In fact, there are often wars or revolutions to start things. For us, what started this DAO was a generous donation and the will of the TSB founders.

Some mistakes were made along the way. Now, we’re all working to improve things. Let’s do so with positive spirits so we can all enjoy what we’re doing! :blue_heart:

Wow! You think the DAO Admin Team has no interest in the community and is just in this for paychecks?

I can’t imagine operating from a place of such anger and mistrust, but it must be emotionally challenging.

I can speak for all 5 of the Admin Team when I say their hearts are more than just ā€œin itā€, they reel from the pain of these kinda accusations.

Now, speaking for myself, in regards to your accusing me of ā€œjust wanting a paycheckā€ – I could be making almost twice as much elsewhere and have turned down offers since I started with the DAO.

There is no really no need for personal attacks on people’s character here.

Let’s please try to operate from the place of understanding that we ALL want is best for the TSB Ecosystem; we just have different positions.

The ā€œus vs themā€ mentality won’t help advance any of our collective goals.

That’s…fascinating. :grinning: And pretty encouraging to hear. Have they made any indication if they intend to invoice? (not asking you to ask them, just wondering if it’s already been made known to you)

I think the CC is that seat at the table. Either that, or we wait until Dec 2025 when reelections for SC comes.

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Wow I didn’t know that. Thanks for clarifying, especially on the part of most SC members not invoicing their remuneration.

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Out of respect for the privacy of those individuals, I asked nothing more.

I don’t believe they intend to invoice. They’re just doing their jobs and not asking for anything.

It should also be mentioned that it’s probably hard for them (even for me or the rest of the DAO admin team) to engage the community’s ridiculing and accusations when they are not grounded in empathy and attempts at understanding. This is just to say, I bet a few of them would’ve engaged more if they didn’t fear being attacked.

I cannot stress enough how important it is that we strive to set an example for constructive discourse. There are a lot more eyes on these conversations than there are participants. So, we should all be thinking about how our words make others on the Forums feel about their own experiences.

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Late to the party here, here’s my 2 cents:

  • Special Council to be replaced by a Community Council.
  • Community Council to be rotated every 6 months.
  • Community Council to be divided by ā€œHouse of Representativesā€. Example: ā€œHouse of Game Makerā€, ā€œHouse of Land Ownersā€, House of Players", ā€œHouse of VoxEditā€, etc.
  • Each ā€œHouseā€ has a representant to be elected to the Community Council.

If any SIP doesn’t align or form consensus with the Community, it will struggle to gather consensus. Happy Community = Happy DAO = Happy TSB

The Community is vast and has many different angles to see from: Players, Game Creators, VoxEdit Creators, Content Creators, KOL Community Members, Land Owners, SAND owners - There are a lot of members involved and each one with their different view.

  • Individuals can apply to enter any ā€œHouseā€, each ā€œHouseā€ has their own tab in the forum to discuss either the Active SIP’s or the SIP ideias. This will give focus and a broader view from each ā€œHouseā€ on how imactful the SIP is overall to the whole TSB ecosystem.

  • Instead of paying 7x 110k SAND / Year for the current Special Council (770k SAND / Year) - divide that value for the number of SIP’s that happen during a whole year, which were about 15 SIP’s during 2024 if we exclude the 3 first ones that were to setup the DAO.

That’s 51K SAND per SIP, that SAND could be distributed amongst the contributers of each ā€œHouseā€. This would ensure a fair retribution for the effort and time we all put here to make the DAO work and run.

Of course there’s a lot more though that could be put in here, especially how each ā€œHouseā€ would run, but it’s a thought to start.

Nice suggestions!

Certainly seems important to have representatives of different corners of the ecosystem. But I imagine it would be a logistical challenge to have candidates select a category to which they’d want to run since most people fall into more than a single category. And people may choose a ā€œhouseā€ just because it seems less contested than others.

6 months is a short period! – What’s the reasoning? – Might be hard for them ideate and implement ideas in that timeframe.

How do others here feel about these ideas? :eyes:

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This part seems dependent upon abolishing the Special Council, right?

Then, redistribute their pay to the CC — Am I reading that right?

First of all, it would be a ā€œconstitutional SIPā€ to abolish to the SC.

Second, your numbers are wrong. There are only 5 SC members. Not 7. + Most of them (as disclosed above) have never invoiced the DAO and expressed no interest in doing so to date.

I would be cautious about drawing any conclusion here about the fact that no invoice was made. They might just wait the end of the year or their mandate and as this was approved in first SIPs they would be in full rights to do so.

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