🤝🏽 SIP Establishing a SandFam-elected "Community Council"

[KandidlyKristen]

This was one of my suggestions.

I am not sharing false information by directly quoting what is written. I do not care how things will be carried out, I care how they are written. If the DAO Admin team or TSB chooses to go against what the community votes on and carry something out differently, that is up to them. And that is something you already said happened with the Ambassador program. Which just further adds to my trust issues with this SIP as it is written, the main point I have been making with all of the evidence I shared.

To me, what the community actually votes on is what matters most. And that’s why I want this written as it should be to give the community an actual voice and power, even if I were to blindly trust that it would be carried out differently than was voted on, I want the community’s vote to matter and I want to trust that it will be carried out how the community votes.

And how is this relevant to the current SIP? Read my responses above. This SIP is not needed. The DAO Admin team can read the forum to gather the Community’s ideas. The Special Council stated they would be there for the Community’s Interests, so if they are not doing their job then I feel it would be better to put them to a vote and remove any that aren’t doing their job and replace them with Community Members. I do not feel placing another level between the Community and actual power and a voice is beneficial to the community. Which is exactly why the previous conversations about the Special Council are directly related to this SIP. I was questioned. I responded with answers. You claimed I was off topic, but I didn’t go off topic because it directly relates to the lack of a necessity.

If this sip is needed to give the DAO Admin team the data, then I want actual power and a voice for the Community. And I want the data going to more than just the DAO Admin team.

I understand you claim this is actual power and representation, but as I proved many times above with historical references to how the DAO Admin team was already given the Community’s Interests and did not use that to the benefit of the community and even lied to the community (whether they responded months later to correct the lie or not, at the time of the vote it was still a lie that manipulated the vote, plain and simple, no matter what mistake or reason they made to do so). And for those reasons above I do not feel this gives the community a voice or power at all.

As I also stated above, the way to give the community a voice and power is by placing a community member on the Special Council. The Special Council recommendation has determined the outcome of every single SIP that reached quorum, which is no longer an issue. Postives passed. Negatives failed.

I did not share false information, I have provided direct quotes.

I did not deviate drastically from the topics. The Special Council and Ambassador SIP outcomes were directly related to my reason for being opposed to this and evidence as to why this SIP is not needed as written.

I did not attack individuals that were not related to my reasons to object to this SIP as it is written.

Given the Special Council does not want to ensure SIPs align with the community’s interests and the DAO Admin team has lied to us in the past (again, for whatever reason, mistake or not, corrected months after voting or not), the only way to create a Community Council that has any sort of actual power and a voice is to:

@KandidlyKristen

• Change the SIP to include amending the first SIPs removing all compensation for the Special Council and forcing them to return any compensation they already received. Put that 1.1 Million SAND towards Community Interests. Let them show they are about the passion. Or Pay the Community Council the exact same amount as the Special Council and take even more money from the Community.
• Remove every single line mentioning that the Community Council is there to serve the DAO. Replace it with serving the Community.
• Give the Community Council the same power as the Special Council with respect to voting on SIPs or vetoing them. And publish that recommendation to the SIP so the Special Council, Advisory Board, DAO Admin Team and, especially, the Community can see how the Community feels.
• Give the Community Council the same requirements as the Special Council with respect to absolutely no requirements other than 3 of 5 needing to vote on SIPs.

And as I also said about how this is currently written:

@KandidlyKristen

Honestly, your intentions may have been in the right place and I appreciate that, but this execution feels like nothing more than a slap in the face for the community.

[PickaxeMaster]

@theKuntaMC

It is starting to sound like “working groups,” which other DAOs have also explored (often with great challenges). Having low participation currently might also make this kinda segmenting a challenge in operational efficiency (at least, at this point).

In practical terms, it is a Working Group. Although it might face some challenges, it might also be a catalyst to have more people invited, as their contributions will affect what matters the most to them.

I don’t mind Co-Authoring this SIP, but I’d definitely would need more help and more brains to flush down the ideas.

[KandidlyKristen]

@theKuntaMC

Nobody has suggested any numbers for discussion. That one is not a simple yes/no decision for inclusion, but we also must achieve a community consensus around a fair rate of remuneration.

I suggested two numbers for discussion multiple times.

@KandidlyKristen

Change the SIP to include amending the first SIPs removing all compensation for the Special Council and forcing them to return any compensation they already received. Put that 1.1 Million SAND towards Community Interests. Let them show they are about the passion. Or Pay the Community Council the exact same amount as the Special Council and take even more money from the Community.

[theKuntaMC]

@KandidlyKristen

I am not sharing false information by directly quoting what is written.

Please stop being combative, Kristen.

The false info I most recently called you out on was your claim that you are not allowed to share your ideas. That is false. You are actively lying to the community when you say that.

[theKuntaMC]

@KandidlyKristen

I did not deviate drastically from the topics.

Your airing grievances that are old and irrelevant instead of trying to improve this SIP

[PickaxeMaster]

@KandidlyKristen

To me, what the community actually votes on is what matters most. And that’s why I want this written as it should be to give the community an actual voice and power,

Regarding what KK is saying, she isn’t wrong. We’ve lived enough in this space to see Words difer from Actions. This is a Twitter Thread we did exposing exactly what KK described: x.com

We were promised that TSB would NEVER vote again on SIP’s, just to have it vote again right after Seb made that public statment.

I believe the Community Council should serve the Community more than anything.
There are institutional interests, which we understand TSB is a company and a business. There are community interests, which sometimes do not match with TSB interests. And there’s the DAO which seems to be a bridge between these 2 institutions. For the sake of balance, the CC should always defend the Community interests first.

KK has been an amazing member of the community, a 5 star moderator, an engaged KOL and as always put the community 1st, despite what outcome could be for her. Shoutout to you Kirsten.

The way I see what KK is trying to push here on this SIP, is the fact that the suggested Code of Conduct might be a conflict of interest with what the CC stands for.

[theKuntaMC]

@KandidlyKristen

I did not attack individuals

You most certainly have. Myself included.

You made a statement that I am here only for my paycheck and not for the love of TSB.

Those kinds of personal attacks are not permitted. And you’ve certainly made them about other people, too.

Please, just try to be CONSTRUCTIVE… and aim to make this a pleasant experience for everyone you’re working with.

[theKuntaMC]

Awesome! Hopefully, we can get this CC SIP passed in a condition that the most people possible are pleased with.

Keep this idea of HOUSES in your back pocket until then, k??

Submit this in SIP: Ideas once the CC is seated and you can then also draw upon their input to develop this SIP… sound good?!

[theKuntaMC]

@PickaxeMaster

We were promised that TSB would NEVER vote again on SIP’s, just to have it vote again right after Seb made that public statement.

This was wrong.

There is no explanation for this!

[DrMetaverso]

Great stuff… I would suggest a compensation of 1000 Sand/Month. the number aligns with different ambassador roles and content creators we currently have.

We can use the same metrics we currently have for the SC or/and AB, but with some adjustments to better suit the CC role. Because I don’t believe we have a solid and reliable mechanism to capture those metrics such as engagement rates to measure effort for the CC role.

[theKuntaMC]

@PickaxeMaster

I believe the Community Council should serve the Community more than anything.
There are institutional interests, which we understand TSB is a company and a business. There are community interests, which sometimes do not match with TSB interests. And there’s the DAO which seems to be a bridge between these 2 institutions. For the sake of balance, the CC should always defend the Community interests first.

Sadly, as I see things, KK comes from a place of wanting to tear things down instead of actively building them up. I disagree that she’s been amazing (at least in 2024). People are scared away from participation by her intense level of vitriol and unfiltered resentment (even IF/when it may be justified). This doesn’t help TSB at large or the DAO. In fact, the SC and AB are LESS likely to engage the community because of her behavior, and justifiably so, as no one wants to deal with being attacked, right?

She is also working against her voice being heard since people tend to turn away from conflict and she insists on being combative at every turn instead of working collaboratively.

That said, she is certainly NOT being denied a voice anywhere.

But… it is harder to listen when people are yelling, isn’t it?

---

Thank you for your thoughtful comments here and for grounding them in reasonable communication!

@Lanzer and I will see what we can do to make this more of a “community first” spirit in the SIP language before we resubmit in a few days.

If I may explain, here is a framework for the reasoning of this SIP:

The CC was designed to serve a role like senators, congresspeople, or parliament, wherein they are elected by “the people” and serve those constituents as their primary role, BUT they also work for the government in helping to improve the governance process to represent those people who elected them. Thus, this CC role similarly sits between the “people” and the “system” so they may influence that system (which they are part of one way or another in a DAO, but now they’ve got a formal role).

They are representatives of the community who work alongside the official bodies to impose the will of their constituents (the SandFam).

[DrMetaverso]

To provide some context, Seb did comment this :
basically, the TSB vote will be used when necessary to reach quorum and until delegations are in place. This is because we didn’t reach quorum.

[KandidlyKristen]

Here’s all the times I said the word paycheck in here and how they aren’t attack.

@KandidlyKristen

If this reaches quorum, I will be voting No. I do not support forcing hours of free work every day, week and month onto the lowest community members while all the money goes to the top management who has zero requirements and just collects a paycheck.

They knew what they were doing when they created this DAO. They got themselves the money and the power they wanted for themselves and their friends. Time for them to do what they promised, resign or get voted out. This is not the time for them to force the work on others while they do nothing but earn their paychecks.

To appease those people who don’t want to read the rest of the post I will edit it as such to include every context in one sentence:

“This is not the time for them the DAO Admin Team and Special Council to force the work on others while they do nothing to collect the community feedback in order to do what they promised to ensure SIPs align with the community’s interests but earn their paychecks from the free labor of the Community Council members with daily, weekly, bi-weekly and monthly requirements.”

Not an attack. Directly related to this SIP.

@KandidlyKristen

To me all this seems like is a way for the Special Council to be able to say “see, we listened to the community” in order to ensure they receive their paychecks for another year to do absolutely nothing. So, for that reason, and because this “Community Council” is being proposed to “serve The Sandbox DAO” and NOT to “serve the Community,” I will either not vote, or if it reaches quorum, I will vote 100% No.

If you forgot what the Constitution that we voted on says as the responsibility for their paychecks, I’ll sum it up but you can reference the Constitution to verify.
“The role of the Special Council is to review and make a recommendation on each SIP”
“A minimum of 3 members is required to vote on any Special Council recommendation.”

Those are all the “Roles and Responsibilities.” So two of them can literally do nothing and still get a paycheck.

Here is where they list their promises to care about the community:
“Special Council members provide guidance on Sandbox Improvement Proposals (SIPs), ensuring that they align with The Sandbox DAO’s vision and the community’s interests. They also hold decision-making power and can veto proposals based on legality, redundancy, conflict, and community interests.”

These are not lies or blind attacks, these are the truth and directly related to why the community deserves better than this as it is written.

And yes, I have shared many times how to make it better for the community but unfortunately some are so offended by the truth and my response when people question why I feel the way I do that they just want to keep ignoring the suggestions and claim I am not providing any constructive comments that are relevant to the topics of discussion.

[KandidlyKristen]

Yes, this was a direct response to TSB’s VP going to approve the Ambassador SIP that so many of us had united to not vote on in order to prevent it from passing due to not reaching quorum. He knew how we felt through direct contact with him and from us sharing our feedback up the chain so he was receiving it from multiple sources.

This is directly related to this SIP because it shows that even when given the data collected from the community the Special Council will actively work against the Community to get what they want and is why I feel the only appropriate SIP for a Community Council gives the Community Council actual power and not just the ability to share data behind closed doors.

Since I now have to point out exactly how everything I type directly relates to the SIP at hand, that is how it directly relates to this SIP while seeming like it is off topic.

[theKuntaMC]

NOTED!!

Does 1k SAND/month remuneration for CC members seem reasonable to others here?

Adding money to the equation would require significant support here in discussion phase.

This would add a budget to this SIP which would likely have to be drawn from the “others” bucket.

The Admin Team will be relating new categories for SIPs to better align with what we’ve seen and what we expect this year. Those will be released later this month.

[theKuntaMC]

Kristen - before you made this most recent comment, you went in and edited the previous remarks that you quoted here.

You realize I have backend access to all edits, right?

You’re being deceptive to the community to make an argument right now. This is another example of sharing false info.

[KandidlyKristen]

Not at all.

• This is a DAO for The Sandbox, a crypto project. All funds should be determined in SAND and not USD
• Without power for their voice the money will do nothing but take funds away from other areas of The Sandbox that need the money

[theKuntaMC]

Thank you for sharing additional context

What’s important now is that we’re looking forward to how we can improve things from their current condition.

The TSB wallet hasn’t been used in a few cycles now

• Delegation is live
• We are reaching quorum

We can do better still! – That’s what DAO-ing is all about.

The spirit of kaizen must be strong.

[KandidlyKristen]

You have my full permission to share any and all edits I made as well as time stamps for those edits.

Given most edits were made either immediately or added in quotes to designate where an edit was made, I have absolutely nothing to hide.

In fact, I even go so far as to admit to making the edits and state specifically why I made the edits:

@KandidlyKristen

To appease those people who don’t want to read the rest of the post I will edit it as such to include every context in one sentence:

So no, I don’t see that as deceptive as all. But please feel free to share the screenshots of the edits I made in order to be deceptive so people don’t start accusing using of being deceptive by attacking me as you have constantly done because I won’t blindly follow the DAO until the community has an actual voice and actual power.

[theKuntaMC]

@KandidlyKristen

All funds should be determined in SAND and not USD

Thanks for watching that. It was a type-o.

Edited to 1k SAND / month.