The SANDDAO Podcast - An educational & news show about the Sandbox DAO

[sebga]

@Biversen

Andy Richy
AU24Kay
VauxMachina
fredandferd
EscapeRoomArtist
HodlHill
TomVoxel
PetsKitchen
iantheitguy
Krafter
PlayGame4Fun
Maybe Even Game Dizzy and Halfdork and many others

@Biversen I respect and appreciate them all , but that’s what i said , none of them is in a similar position.

They all stream their experiences and build an economic model on that, which is very good but very different from Sanddao, which does not sell anything, which does not stream its experience.

The only one who could claim this is Krafter, who was giving a real guided tour of our ecosystem. (He had made an offer for 5k per month which was refused.)

@Biversen

For example;
I contribute more than the DAO channel. I produce everything related to the sandbox. They gave Lanzer 1000 dollars per episode. but They rejected my offer of 750 dollars. some people are in unity and transfer DAO’s money to someone. We are working for this ecosystem for nothing. ETC.

You’re an ambassador. That’s not fair to say you work for nothing.

@Biversen

DAOs in a summary in the eyes of the people I have spoken to about DAOs: definition: “An autocratic system where everyone votes and the outcome is determined by those with the most voting power”

Autocratic? The DAO distributed 2M VP to all delegates. Even if it is temporary, is it not a desire to move forward, to redistribute the VPs, to seek a balanced system?

Ok, it’s not perfect, but let’s build and shape, not just criticize and walk away.

@Biversen

In short, I don’t want to do injustice to all streamers at this point.

There is no injustice to support Sanddao.
When I want to support the others streamer, the ones creating “game” or “creator” content, I bought asset from AU24Kay or another creator, I visit experience to give them traffic, I share them work and promote them, etc…
DAO is a community, community is us. There are several ways to support, not only DAO found.

The vote is not over but seems to be more in favor of no.

My final decision hasn’t been made, but I’m starting to think that it would be interesting to produce assets and sell them to finance the episodes.
@Lanzer , If you want, I’m ready to create the assets (for free for sure, it will be my contribution).
Tell me what do you think about it. This would allow us to silence the controversy and move forward.
We create an asset, we call on interested parties for a 2-week pre-order period (to mint only the necessary number), then we mint and send. This funds a series of episodes.
Those who want to support will be able to purchase the nft(s). Probably the most democratic solution.

[DrMetaverso]

I don’t really know how to vote yet, my mind hasn’t decided on it!

Most importantly, there’s no doubt that @lanzer brings tremendous value with his show, and I truly appreciate all the hard work you have put into the show. Please don’t stop

I don’t think the budget is an issue compared to the DAO’s overall budget, especially since we have pools allocated for such initiatives. I personally think, and from what I gathered, we are essentially voting on two things here: establishing a benchmark for supporting a content creator and determining what is a reasonable budget per episode/publication/etc.

I didn’t consider the metrics on this one because they’re pretty much nonexistent. For example, look at TSB’s official stream on Twitch for 2024, their average is 37 viewers. However, with a podcast, the value of episodes remains, even if someone watches it a year later IMO!

I agree with @Sebga that the content created by Lanzer and other content creators is completely different. The audience might be the same, but not necessarily.

[Biversen]

I am writing more clearly because I think I am not explaining it correctly.

@Biversen

DAO is not a difficult subject. Also The stream does not only have to be DAO. If his stream is related to Sandbox, he can make this application. They promotes and contributes to the ecosystem and tries to grow it. (DAO or not same thing for me)

The qualification of streamers has nothing to do with DAO. If you give 1000 dollars per episode to a streamer with a small audience and influence, you should give more to a streamers with a bigger influence who stream anything related to SANDBOX or DAO when you ask for more.

Even as it builds its own experience and tries to create an economic model, it is of significant benefit to SANDBOX. It promotes tools and games. etc.

So instead of focusing on a single rock in a huge mountain, you have to see the whole mountain.

Otherwise the streamer whose offer is rejected will say exactly that.

@Biversen

For example;
I contribute more than the DAO channel. I produce everything related to the sandbox. They gave Lanzer 1000 dollars per episode. but They rejected my offer of 750 dollars. some people are in unity and transfer DAO’s money to someone. We are working for this ecosystem for nothing. ETC.

The Ambassador must think and act according to the organization he or she represents. But if you don’t know what the community thinks and might think, this is a serious problem.

And yes, as an Ambassador, I can say that why are we Ambassadors if we are not going to voice what the community has to say about the organization or individuals?

I think about an issue in many ways. I look at it from a wide perspective and try to see the whole picture. I suggest the same for you.

@sebga

Autocratic? The DAO distributed 2M VP to all delegates. Even if it is temporary, is it not a desire to move forward, to redistribute the VPs, to seek a balanced system?

Ok, it’s not perfect, but let’s build and shape, not just criticize and walk away.

@Biversen

DAOs in a summary in the eyes of the people I have spoken to about DAOs: definition: “An autocratic system where everyone votes and the outcome is determined by those with the most voting power”

And they’re right. I think the perception of DAOs themselves, rather than the fair value of DAOs, needs to be broken, which I think is impossible because of the nature of DAOs.

Please let’s get the citation right. DAOs are inherently like that. To say otherwise is to not know how they are governed. You cannot build a balanced system. The system is inherently not suited for it. One can work to make it better. But you cannot teach a monkey to fly. So it will never be democratic. This is the most common complaint about DAOs.

Autocracy in the name of democracy.

@sebga

There is no injustice to support Sanddao.
When I want to support the others streamer, the ones creating “game” or “creator” content, I bought asset from AU24Kay or another creator, I visit experience to give them traffic, I share them work and promote them, etc…
DAO is a community, community is us. There are several ways to support, not only DAO found.

of course it’s gonna be injustice.

Lanzer is an independent streamer. Then we can find another way to support him instead of DAO, like subscribing to his Twitch channel. Send Bit. Start a YouTube subscription. doing traffic.

It would be unfair if it is going to get less engagement and benefit than any other streamers, and if it is only going to be supported from the DAO because the content is DAO.

In short, I don’t want to do injustice to all streamers at this point.

@SirAlokin

A quarterly ranking of the top 10 could then be drawn up after a review process based on views, unique users, watch time, and content quality (in my opinion, prioritizing those who create educational content, rather than those, like me, who stream while playing The Sandbox without discussing projects or news). This ranking would function similarly to the current content creator awards.

I totally agree with that. But that’s another SIP topic.

[Lanzer]

I would like to propose an alternative SIP on this topic, where any streamer who dedicates time to The Sandbox can receive some contribution

I think this is a great idea @SirAlokin. @DAO mentioned in an earlier reply that ApeCoin DAO has ThankApe and @KamiSawZe mentioned a boost chest.

I completely support this! I want SANDDAO’s SIP voting and either achieve a Yes or No. Here’s what I’m gonna do…I’m going to make a post to SIP Ideas and invite you + Kami to be coauthor with me. I can’t invite @DAO (The Intern) because he’s a delegate.

Incoming soon.

[Lanzer]

I just published a new SIP Idea thread based on what @DAO @KamiSawZe @SirAlokin suggested in their response. I call it “The Sand Chest”. Head on over there and let’s continue what they started!

Establishing "the Sand Chest" to reward Content Creators

SIP-18 (funding SANDDAO) caused a HUGE debate, and one thing came out loud and clear was the support for a consolidated SIP that rewards/funds the many content creators across the Sandbox. Click here for the context of this post First and foremost, I invite @SirAlokin & @KamiSawZe up here as coauthors (sorry @DAO you’re a Delegate so I can’t invite you !) and I credit them with a mixture of this idea and I completely agree with Kami that the rules need to be clear. I propose we …

[sebga]

@Biversen

For example;
I contribute more than the DAO channel. I produce everything related to the sandbox. They gave Lanzer 1000 dollars per episode. but They rejected my offer of 750 dollars.

All I said was that as an ambassador you get Sand and it’s unfair to say you get nothing in return for your involvement.

@Biversen

The Ambassador must think and act according to the organization he or she represents. But if you don’t know what the community thinks and might think, this is a serious problem.

And yes, as an Ambassador, I can say that why are we Ambassadors if we are not going to voice what the community has to say about the organization or individuals?

I think about an issue in many ways. I look at it from a wide perspective and try to see the whole picture. I suggest the same for you.

I listen and consider our community just as much as you do.

I’m looking for solutions and I’m not making personal attacks with innuendo.
Please stay in a constructive discussion.

[Lanzer]

BIG BIG UPDATE for SANDDAO SIP!

SIP-18 has achieved quorum. BUT! It did so with WhaleVault.eth’s 7M “No” vote, making the results 59% No, and 39% Yes.

This is the first time WhaleVault.eth has voted in TSB DAO and it’s 100% my fault.

>> Click to learn why

Magic Palette

• Our story beings with @Pepe going to WhaleMembers to obtain their YES vote for his SIP-6 Magic Palette.
• WhaleMembers oversee WhaleVault.eth’s impressive 1.5K lands collection totaling 7.6M VP.
• The WhaleCouncil declined Pepe request for WhaleVault to vote on Snapshot due to concerns about wallet security.
• I join WhaleMembers first to support Pepe, but quickly learn that it doesn’t make sense to try and convince the WhaleCouncil to risk WhaleVault’s lands
• I stay because of their focus on appreciation of art, and after interviewing Arthemort for SIP-8, I grew interested to learn about art, provenance, etc.

WhaleDAO Announced & my proposal

• On Sep 27, 2024 the WhaleCouncil announced the start of WhaleDAO and that it satisfied wallet security concerns with a multi-sig approach.
• THAT SAME DAY, I–being the excitable eager beaver that I am–think it’s a great idea to submit a proposal to WhaleDAO to establish a structured approach for WhaleVault.eth to vote in TSB DAO. I write up a WhaleDAO proposal (they call it WAVE-Y 1), and it goes to vote on Dec 6, passes with 31 votes & 100% of the vote.
• This part is crucial: I originally structured the approach to do exactly what Seb DAO does, just copy pasta the SIP in Snapshot and then the Whale Council votes the result into TSB DAO’s SIP.
• Through multiple rounds of curation with the WhaleCouncil (that I had LOTS of practice with our DAO Admin Team to prepare me for ) I am persuaded to change it to where the Whale Council votes based on me posting a TLDR on their Discord with emoji up/down arrow reactions and then observe the overall feeling of a 7-day dialogue with Whale Members across multiple chat channels.
• We use SIPs-16 and SIP-17 as a test case, but the timing was too tight for WhaleVault to vote.

ENTER SANNDAO Podcast SIP.

• I copy paste the same TLDR format for my SIP. Making all necessary disclosures in the chats that I’m the SIP author, etc.

• There was majority Yes emoji reactions but no one decided to ask me questions or discuss. On New Years day the 7-day discussion window closes per the passed WAVE-Y1 process, and I submit the results to the Whale Council.
• Whale Council responded that they chose to vote “No” based on the Special Council’s negative recommendation and because of the replies in our SIP-18’s Discourse discussion thread.
• I am understandably surprised and upset by this, but here we are and you’re now all caught up!

I did not expect WhaleVault to vote “No”, and I’m hurt by their decision. With only 4 days left before the SIP closes, I again reiterate my belief that

• funding SANDDAO is worthwhile for the DAO
• It is 0.3% of the DAO’s $4M budget, I’ve published 54 episodes already,
• SANDDAO has demonstrated its commitment and contribution to ecosystem.
• I’m a homegrown and independent podcast that needs support to continue.

Please consider voting Yes.

[hishmad]

Hi @Lanzer,
I recognize the positive contributions you’re making to the community. A key lesson I’ve learned is the importance of cost-effectiveness. Would it be possible to explore a new SIP with reduced production costs?

[Lanzer]

Yes, but I already planned on making the $15K last more than 15 episodes.

I think people believe $15K is not cost effective because the SC cited $400 per episode. I don’t think the SC fully captured all the costs of DiTS (like Kunta’s time), and my research shows $1K is reasonable. Screenshots of my research below.

I don’t think I made it clear enough that I anticipate doing more than 15 episodes on $15K @mo_ezz14 @moefat @Biversen @hishmad @rocksymiguel @kcl

I just can’t promise it because I wouldn’t be acting in good faith if I lowered the price below teammate wages hoping that they’ll give me a discount on their already discounted rate. I don’t feel good about doing that and it’s not right.

[hishmad]

Given the significant variation in production costs, particularly human costs, across different locations, I am utilizing the committee’s benchmarks to ensure appropriate comparisons. For instance, I anticipate that production costs in Indonesia will not exceed $200 per episode. This would differ significantly in the USA, hence the importance of the committee’s benchmarks.

[Biversen]

@sebga

All I said was that as an ambassador you get Sand and it’s unfair to say you get nothing in return for your involvement.

You are misunderstanding the situation and taking it in the wrong direction. I’m not talking about me.

I’m talking about any streamer can say that.

For example;
I (not me any Streamer can be) contribute more than the DAO channel.
I (not me any Streamer can be) produce everything related to the sandbox. They gave Lanzer 1000 dollars per episode.

but They (DAO) rejected my offer (not me any Streamer can be) of 750 dollars. some people are in unity and transfer DAO’s money to someone.

We (not me any Streamer can be) are working for this ecosystem for nothing. ETC.

I think that’s clearer. I don’t know how to write more clearly.

I don’t understand why you are stubbornly dragging the issue to an irrelevant point of being an Ambassador.

@sebga

I listen and consider our community just as much as you do.

I’m looking for solutions and I’m not making personal attacks with innuendo.
Please stay in a constructive discussion.

So you are implying that I am making a personal attack by innuendo?

Ironic.

@Lanzer

I think people believe $15K is not cost effective because the CC cited $400 per episode. I don’t think the SC fully captured all the costs of DiTS (like Kunta’s time), and my research shows $1K is reasonable. Screenshots of my research below.

The problem is not only cost. It is performance-cost.

I appreciate your personal performance, but as I said, the viewership numbers are low for the requested price.

Also, from a wider perspective, once your budget is approved, all other broadcasters have the right to make the same proposal. Especially streamers with high viewership will ask for more budget and they will cite your budget approval as an example for these offers.

Then all of these proposals should be approved (this is how I look at it).

This starts to put a serious cost on the DAO’s budget. If it is not approved, trust in the DAO decreases. Instead of attracting people, we start losing them.

[sebga]

@Biversen

So you are implying that I am making a personal attack by innuendo?

Ironic.

you did

I apologize if I offended you.

[cryptodiplo]

We will fail if we start fighting with each other, plain and simple.

Let’s debate the SIP and SIP alone, not the intentions and qualities of our fellow SandFam.

[Biversen]

I’m not offended. I’m just trying to understand you.

I think we have different criteria for personal attacks. A seemingly normal suggestion and conversation may feel like an attack.

I’m sorry about that.

@cryptodiplo

We will fail if we start fighting with each other, plain and simple.

Let’s debate the SIP and SIP alone, not the intentions and qualities of our fellow SandFam.

No fighting. We are civilized people. We are just trying to understand each other.

[theKuntaMC]

oh good! Thanks for that clarity.

I really try my best in all of my words and actions to EMPOWER the others in this community rather than position myself for authority.

No doubt, translations may skew the meanings of some statements. That’s another reason we all have to be extra patient and understanding with each other in an international community

[theKuntaMC]

@cryptodiplo

We will fail if we start fighting with each other, plain and simple.

Let’s debate the SIP and SIP alone, not the intentions and qualities of our fellow SandFam.

THIS

[hishmad]

@Biversen

Also, from a wider perspective, once your budget is approved, all other broadcasters have the right to make the same proposal. Especially streamers with high viewership will ask for more budget and they will cite your budget approval as an example for these offers.

We need a process for priority planning, which is currently missing.

Should we collaborate each year to decide which categories of SIPs deserve priority for acceptance and discussion?

[Lanzer]

That must be where our disconnect is.

The team is made up of people from

• Indonesia
• Philippines
• Canada
• America
• Italy

Editing alone costs more than $200 per episode for anything over 30 minutes.

Let’s take for instance someone I searched for on Fiverr: Gismoxan. He’s a highly rated video editor from Uzbekistan. $250 for anything above 30 minutes. Some of his competitors go up to $570 for a MAX of 30 minutes.

You might think the situation is different outside of Fiverr, and it somewhat is, but there’s a mix of skill, trust, credibility, and price that I have to balance, and I chose what I did because I know I can succeed with the team I’ve built.

[moefat]

I think it’s great that there’s a lot of discussion happening concerning SIP#18 by Lanzer.

I think this is what DAOs were created for.

First of all, I would like to thank Lazer for all the hard work he’s put into planning, organizing, and filiming the podcasts.

I’m sure many of us, especially the delegates, benefited from his work!

However, I voted no, basically for the reasons the Council had recommended. I am also a youtuber for the Sandbox Korean community, and I can surely say that the engagement rate at this point is very low - for videos related to the Sandbox in general.

I think that just has to do with the overall blockchain gaming industry.

With that said, I think the 15,000 dollars equivalent amount of SAND could be allocated more to other projects that directly help the promotion of the Sandbox gaming ecosystem.

As helpful as the DAO podcasts are, I believe this can be done in a bootstrap fashion, as most of the viewers will be heavily invested members who are active on the DAO.

The production cost of 1,000 dollars per episode I think would be better allocated to gaming streamers or programs that can have a direct impact in improving the influx of players and creators.

Anyways, once again much kudos to Lanzer for the various SIPs he’s already written up, and the contribution to the community.

[Lanzer]

Well shoot. I’m bummed to see it all go this way.

To those who have voted NO.

We’re still friends! I promise

• I don’t want anyone feeling like they need to avoid me or feel awkward to talk to me.
• I don’t plan on throwing a temper tantrum (but maybe give me a day or two to recover from the emotional damage )

Emotional Damage Meme

• PSA: SANDDAO is going to change whether SIP-18 passes or not.

If it passes, it gets bigger and better. If it doesn’t pass, it gets scaled down to what I can manage by myself.

I’m still here. I’m still SandFam. It’s all good.

P.S. Don’t forget to check out the SAND Chest SIP idea, born out of this discussion thread