Reopening of SandDex and Krafter posts

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@Geraldine

Request you reopen SandDex and Krafter posts, please.

Reason being:

  • It wasn’t fair to Krafter to close a topic that was in mid-debate by the community, both here and through X/Twitter. Regardless of whether your team thought it was redundant, it’s the community’s decision and right to hold these discussions. The Ambassador Program authors made clear their intention to make ambassadors answer to the TSB with obligations like posting specific content requested by TSB, while Krafter’s appointment would have answered to the DAO community with the express purpose of what he listed…These are VERY different job descriptions and are NOT closely aligned.
  • Second. You closed SandDex with an assertion of legality. If you had a legal opinion rendered by a practicing lawyer, please publish the lawyer’s opinion on that please. I’m pretty sure that publicly accessible linkages from wallets to online identities is NOT illegal or legally gray in any way. It’s not harassment, it’s not stalking, it’s not anything. We’re not hiring private investigators to follow anyone to their cars, we’re hiring researchers to find PUBLIC linkages from wallets to X/Twitter handles. I worry that you all read my SANDDEX post and thought “legal constraints” when that’s not actually a consideration.

I appreciate your diligence in forum moderation. I would appreciate your review of these requests.

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Just stopping by to reinforce that I also made the request for reopening through Krafter. Among other reasons mentioned in the post, we need to understand that @Geraldine can’t unilaterally close valid, real, and engaged posts from the community and veterans with ongoing ideas and discussions.

I’m a newbie here in the DAO, but my understanding is that the “Vote” button is literally the tool when it comes to “SIP Ideas”. We also have other phases where TSB can share their thoughts, but the abrupt closure of SIPs Idea or discussions shouldn’t happen like this. It’s a very sad situation for the Creators community and those WHO CARES.

Council, with this approach and behavior, will drive away organic creators and passionate ones more and more.

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Hello,
concerning post closures decided unilaterally I tend to agree with the opinion shared here, we must work together, otherwise this dao will unfortunately not go anywhere or worse still, but I like tsb too much to dare to imagine it.

I only have a vague memory of this discussion around SandDEX but what is certain is that making the link between a user/a location on the map and an erc20 address is not really rocket science. Moreover, anyone using web3 knows, it seems to me, the principle of transparency, block explorer etc.
So I may be missing the point but I admit not having understood what the problem identified is. . Perhaps there is a problem in providing a tool for tracing?

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Hello!

As we don’t have a moderator (yet) and answers on the forum are provided on a best effort basis, allow me to take it from here. I see two points in your discussion that I will address separately:

  1. Krafter SIP
  2. SandDex

– KRAFTER SIP –

Context: We wanted to do an experiment. We think it’s better to channel the community interest on a fewer, lively conversations that could give birth to SIPs, rather than 10000 “zombie” ones. We are constantly trying to improve our operations, the life on the forum and the SIP management, as described here and we will keep on looking for a better, sustainable process given our small operations team.

Now there was quite a few dead threads in this forum, so we decided to do some cleanup. When listing which conversations to close, the criteria we used were:

  1. How long the discussion has been opened? (in the case of Krafter SIP: a long time, 60 days)
  2. Is there a lot of traffic?
  3. Is there a lot of votes? (in the case of Krafter SIP: only 9)
  4. Is there any recent replies?

I realise the conversation was picking up again when it was closed. If it were for this only reason it should have been left opened.

However, a judgment call was made giving the content of the proposal itself, which eventually triggered it’s closure. Unfortunatelly, in the context of this particular SIP, its description overlapped with the missions of the “content team” at The Sandbox (who handles everything UGC and requires tight coordination).

We acknowledge there are already independent content creators, podcaster etc, and The Sandbox very much encourages that. However a full time, sponsored by the DAO, UGC onboarding specialist, with no reporting line to the content team, is a different beast entirely, and would have eventually disturbed its current operations. This types of roles are better suited to official staff members. I have discussed again with them today, and they are (amongst other things) very busy with Season 4, so we must not disturb that. They will happily welcome ideas for improvement on the creators forum though.

We are 2 legal entities, but we are The Sandbox DAO and only exist because the Sandbox wished its existence. We cannot forcibly vote people into jobs at the Sandbox nor disturb its good operations. It’s against the DAO core missions and values.

We are on the path of progressive decentralisation, and not fully decentralised. Perhaps we have not explained that sufficiently, and it generated frustration. Hopefully we can address that better in the future!

As we did not wanted to discourage Krafter’s initiative, the closing message offering to apply for the ambassador program seemed like an elegant alternative. This is an example of the hard decisions we made on the daily.

One other alternative would have been a similar SIP but with a much smaller duration and cost, to be run as an small experiment. Something we will keep in mind when looking at similar SIPs in the future.

On a personnal note, I have recommended Krafter to the head of marketing at the Sandbox for the ambassador program. l have also discussed with the content team about him, who said they will contact him to see if there is anything that can be done officially. In both cases, if there is a match, he will go though rigorous job interviews, like all the other employees and ambassadors.

Finally I was sad to learn about Krafter’s decision to retire from TSB on recent tweets, so I’m not even sure this conversation is relevant anymore :frowning: . I suppose it means interacting with the platform and its community no longer. I would have prefered to have this conversation with him but I appreciate you guy for trying to be proxies. I think he is great, deserve respect, and I even had the pleasure to shortlist and interview him for the Community manager position for the DAO

For future reference, if a community member is interested about working in an official capacity for the Sandbox or the Sandbox DAO, there are currently 3 tracks:

  1. The Sandbox Job Listing
  2. Community manager position for the DAO
  3. The ambassador program
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GM :slight_smile:

– About SandDex –

I really appreciate you are trying to help solving the quorum “issue”. Thanks!

As a reminder, while seeming high, the 30m VP quorum only reprensent less than 1% of the total circulating voting power. The quorum exist to protect the DAO from passing SIPs validated by only a handfull of voters, and ensure a democratic process. That being said, we do indeed need more voters. As shared in the operation team weekly update, we are trying to solve it by different means:

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We also try to push for engagement with the 2 following SIPs

Now the idea of putting together a repository of wallet addresses associated to Voting Power and name/email/username, aka “SandDex” poses several compliance and general issues:

  1. Data privacy
  2. Operational management
  3. From the point of view of the LAND Owner

1: From a data privacy point of view, GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) indicates that processing personal data is generally prohibited, unless it is expressly allowed by law, or the data subject has consented to the processing. While being one of the more well-known legal bases for processing personal data, consent is only one of six bases mentioned in the GDPR. The others are: contract, legal obligations, vital interests of the data subject, public interest and legitimate interest.

Generally speaking: email, and username are considered PII (Privately Identifiable Information), because we cannot know if a person’s self selected username are the same as their real name. Therefore it’s collection and usage must be subjected to the owners explicit approval.

In this particular case, having accepted Twitter or Metamask condition/term of use, when linking their wallet to twitter handle, does not mean they will allow a third party, like the Sandbox DAO, to collect and share publically this information especially with the clear objectives of SIP lobbying.

2: Operational management has also several challenges.
For example:

  • Where this list will be stored? If the service of the “specialised researchers” is paid by the DAO it means the fundation is proprietary of the list, and therefore needs to be maintained by the DAOs operation team, which we don’t want to do, to not be exposed to regulatory scrutiny.
  • Who has access to it? I would assume the entire community (as any community member can have eventually a SIP made on day) so nothing stopping the community to make “pirate” copies
  • How is it maintained? GDPR said that consent must be collected but can be taken away at any point in time. It means we need the ability to delete the entry of the person in the database immediatelly. However given that the list will be made public, how to guaranty they are not copy of the list stashed somewhere on every community members computer? Will they think about deleting the entry too? We simply cannot.

3: And finally, from the perspective of the LAND owner: Everytime a new SIP is live, the LAND Owner is going to be contacted by the entire community trying to looby for his vote. Some people are going to try to convince him to say YES, other NO, other ABSTAIN. Multiply this by the number of SIPs and community members. Le life of the LAND owner is going to be terrible.

I hope it clarifies!
I wish you all a great weekend

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GM @Cyril

SandDex first. Addressing your points in order.

  1. Data privacy. Is your response informed by a legal opinion or lawyer? I’m not sure that what you wrote is the correct interpretation. I don’t think X/Twitter handles are PII, and neither are blockchain wallets. I posed the question to /r/AskLawyers to see what their input is.

  2. Operational Management. This would be created by the team that is funded by the SIP, not the DAO Administration team. It would be a publicly viewable Google Sheet document, accessible by anyone with its URL. The URL would be publicly published. Once SandDex is built and SIP funds are exhausted, I would submit another SIP if it became a valuable tool for the DAO to update.

  3. Land Owner perspective. I am a Land Owner. I do not speak for other Land Owners. But I don’t need to. I wasn’t asked if it was okay for the DAO to count lands as voting power. I don’t think any other Land Owner was asked either. Life for Land Owners was changed the moment the DAO was launched. At this point, it’s well understood that owning a land means being contacted for voting in the DAO.

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GM @Cyril !

Krafter SIP next.

I applaud you for doing the experiment and constantly trying to improve.

I’m unsure what you mean when you speak about how the TSB staff would be disturbed. When Krafter says “onboarding new players,” he’s referring to the interaction seen through his 178 Twitch streams over the past 365 days, which garnered an average of 10 live viewers peaking at 81 viewers and 3721 hours watched. Compare that to TSB’s statistics with 4 people operating it and you’ll see just how impressive his contributions have been. Throughout those streams, Krafter is interacting with his viewers, some of which did not have a Sandbox account before seeing his channel, and he guides them through the process.

The onboarding process is not better with only the staff participating. Onboarding is a task that most SandFam participate in, even me with my 24-slide deck presentation in onboarding 10+ new accounts for Builder’s Challenge 1.

What “forcible vote” are you referring to? I did not realize you were using the vote numbers for of SIP Draft thread to determine whether or not it should pass your team to go to the Special Council. I think this revelation would cause the SIP Draft subforum to become unused, and I understand its purpose is to improve a SIP before submission to the DAO Administration team. I recommend caution on this. Doing this would apply a negative “vote before the vote” effect, where SIP authors would have to campaign for your vote, instead of you facilitating submission for the Sandbox DAO’s actual vote. Krafter’s 9 votes is higher than the average # of votes SIP Drafts receive, even mine.

I’m not sure what you mean about being on “a path of progressive decentralisation, and not fully decentralised.” I’ve heard Seb mention numerous times during AMAs, as he did today with Mia Bao’s AMA, that his goal is for “All the decisions that we [are] making internally as a Sandbox team will be progressively handed over to the community to decide” (fast forward to 17 minutes). The first time I heard him state this was with you at the Fireside Chat at NFC Lisbon. I understood progressive decentralization to be the process by which decentralization is achieved, not that Sandbox DAO would be in progressive decentralization forever.

I appreciate you putting in a good word for Krafter, I’m happy to see you looking out for SandFam in that way!

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@Geraldine You asked the question about if I had sought out opinions from creators forum in my Insert in-game Inventory Filter for Equipment thread. I went in to respond but it too is locked now. Please unlock so that I can respond, thank you! :slightly_smiling_face:

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@Geraldine @Cyril
Following up from my reply.

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@Geraldine & @Cyril , I saw that Krafters thread was reopened. That was very gracious of you. Have you considered what was last said on SandDex?